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	<title>Comments on: Allied offenses:  once more, into the breach</title>
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	<link>http://briefcase8.com/2010/01/28/allied-offenses-once-more-into-the-breach/</link>
	<description>Case analysis with an attitude</description>
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		<title>By: The Briefcase &#187; Case Update</title>
		<link>http://briefcase8.com/2010/01/28/allied-offenses-once-more-into-the-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-71854</link>
		<dc:creator>The Briefcase &#187; Case Update</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briefcase8.com/?p=2588#comment-71854</guid>
		<description>[...] for one count of either for each shot he fired, or knife stab he inflicted.  (Discussion here and here.)  This week, citing Williams, the court summarily disposed of two cases involving the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for one count of either for each shot he fired, or knife stab he inflicted.  (Discussion here and here.)  This week, citing Williams, the court summarily disposed of two cases involving the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: law finder</title>
		<link>http://briefcase8.com/2010/01/28/allied-offenses-once-more-into-the-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-71024</link>
		<dc:creator>law finder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briefcase8.com/?p=2588#comment-71024</guid>
		<description>It really may just depend on the law in this example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It really may just depend on the law in this example.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Gamso</title>
		<link>http://briefcase8.com/2010/01/28/allied-offenses-once-more-into-the-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-69097</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Gamso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briefcase8.com/?p=2588#comment-69097</guid>
		<description>Actually, they wouldn&#039;t have to overrule Brown.  That&#039;s what normal courts would do, but as Russ points out, the Columbus 7 don&#039;t overrule themselves.  What they do instead (as Russ didn&#039;t point out) is something far weirder - and they really are the only court I know that does it.  They say that they didn&#039;t mean what they said before.  

It&#039;s fascinating when you think about it.  They don&#039;t claim to have previously been wrong or to have simply rethought or changed their minds in light of experience or developments or whatever.  They claim to have been so inarticulate and incompetent that they wrote what they didn&#039;t mean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, they wouldn&#8217;t have to overrule Brown.  That&#8217;s what normal courts would do, but as Russ points out, the Columbus 7 don&#8217;t overrule themselves.  What they do instead (as Russ didn&#8217;t point out) is something far weirder &#8211; and they really are the only court I know that does it.  They say that they didn&#8217;t mean what they said before.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s fascinating when you think about it.  They don&#8217;t claim to have previously been wrong or to have simply rethought or changed their minds in light of experience or developments or whatever.  They claim to have been so inarticulate and incompetent that they wrote what they didn&#8217;t mean.</p>
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		<title>By: Cullen Sweeney</title>
		<link>http://briefcase8.com/2010/01/28/allied-offenses-once-more-into-the-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-69095</link>
		<dc:creator>Cullen Sweeney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briefcase8.com/?p=2588#comment-69095</guid>
		<description>I agree that it is scary how unclear the decision is but I still maintain that Williams gets one conviction notwithstanding Lanzinger&#039;s dissent. Lanzinger&#039;s dissent is consistent with her dissent in Whitfield and she also writes seperately to explain that Rance should be overruled.  I agree her statement suggests the majority found two convictions, but nowhere in the majority opinion do they say that. 

No question O&#039;Donnell delineates how the charges arose (i.e. one felonious and one attempted murder from each shot) but that does not answer the question of whether he can be convicted and sentence of both.  If the Court was really going to hold that Williams could be convicted twice of attempted murder they would have to do one of two things:  1) Explicitly overrule Brown; or 2) find a seperate animus based on each shot.  They did not do either.  

Also, the Supreme Court just recently had a case where the defendant stabbed the victim twice in sucession (Marcus Carter) where the court summarily reversed two convictions for felonious assault on the basis of Brown.  This case is no different.

Obviously the decision could be clearer.  And if your right, then we are back to pre-Cabrales madness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that it is scary how unclear the decision is but I still maintain that Williams gets one conviction notwithstanding Lanzinger&#8217;s dissent. Lanzinger&#8217;s dissent is consistent with her dissent in Whitfield and she also writes seperately to explain that Rance should be overruled.  I agree her statement suggests the majority found two convictions, but nowhere in the majority opinion do they say that. </p>
<p>No question O&#8217;Donnell delineates how the charges arose (i.e. one felonious and one attempted murder from each shot) but that does not answer the question of whether he can be convicted and sentence of both.  If the Court was really going to hold that Williams could be convicted twice of attempted murder they would have to do one of two things:  1) Explicitly overrule Brown; or 2) find a seperate animus based on each shot.  They did not do either.  </p>
<p>Also, the Supreme Court just recently had a case where the defendant stabbed the victim twice in sucession (Marcus Carter) where the court summarily reversed two convictions for felonious assault on the basis of Brown.  This case is no different.</p>
<p>Obviously the decision could be clearer.  And if your right, then we are back to pre-Cabrales madness.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Bensing</title>
		<link>http://briefcase8.com/2010/01/28/allied-offenses-once-more-into-the-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-69091</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Bensing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briefcase8.com/?p=2588#comment-69091</guid>
		<description>First, if you watch the oral argument, the State did argue the one shot/one count theory.  Second, read paragraphs 20 and 21 of the opinion:  they very clearly delineate the charges as arising from separate gunshots.  Third, if the court really was saying that Williams can be convicted of only one count of attempted murder, which is exactly what the 8th District did, why reverse and remand?  A remand would be appropriate to allow the state to select which conviction to proceed on -- although I can&#039;t imagine they&#039;d pick a 2nd degree felony over a 1st degree felony -- but a reversal certainly isn&#039;t.  Fourth, Lanzinger apparently believes that the court held Williams could be convicted of two counts of attempted murder, because that&#039;s why she made her partial dissent.

Here&#039;s the scary thing:  When&#039;s the last time that bright guys like you and me -- well, you, anyway -- could disagree about the basic holding of a Supreme Court case?  We might argue as to whether it was a good one or not, but arguing about what it even means?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, if you watch the oral argument, the State did argue the one shot/one count theory.  Second, read paragraphs 20 and 21 of the opinion:  they very clearly delineate the charges as arising from separate gunshots.  Third, if the court really was saying that Williams can be convicted of only one count of attempted murder, which is exactly what the 8th District did, why reverse and remand?  A remand would be appropriate to allow the state to select which conviction to proceed on &#8212; although I can&#8217;t imagine they&#8217;d pick a 2nd degree felony over a 1st degree felony &#8212; but a reversal certainly isn&#8217;t.  Fourth, Lanzinger apparently believes that the court held Williams could be convicted of two counts of attempted murder, because that&#8217;s why she made her partial dissent.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the scary thing:  When&#8217;s the last time that bright guys like you and me &#8212; well, you, anyway &#8212; could disagree about the basic holding of a Supreme Court case?  We might argue as to whether it was a good one or not, but arguing about what it even means?</p>
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		<title>By: Cullen Sweeney</title>
		<link>http://briefcase8.com/2010/01/28/allied-offenses-once-more-into-the-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-69089</link>
		<dc:creator>Cullen Sweeney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 14:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briefcase8.com/?p=2588#comment-69089</guid>
		<description>Russ,

I read the opinion again and I have to disagree with you.  In the first paragraph, O&#039;Donnell lays out the State&#039;s position:  it argues that &quot;Williams may be seperately convicted and sentenced for both counts of felonious assault and one count of attempted murder.&quot;  In light of Brown, the State did not even argue that Williams could be convicted twice of attempted murder because that is frankly ridiculous.  Thus O&#039;Donnell does not address that issue.  Bottomline--Williams goes back and the State gets to choose one conviction and sentence for attempted murder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russ,</p>
<p>I read the opinion again and I have to disagree with you.  In the first paragraph, O&#8217;Donnell lays out the State&#8217;s position:  it argues that &#8220;Williams may be seperately convicted and sentenced for both counts of felonious assault and one count of attempted murder.&#8221;  In light of Brown, the State did not even argue that Williams could be convicted twice of attempted murder because that is frankly ridiculous.  Thus O&#8217;Donnell does not address that issue.  Bottomline&#8211;Williams goes back and the State gets to choose one conviction and sentence for attempted murder.</p>
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		<title>By: Bracton</title>
		<link>http://briefcase8.com/2010/01/28/allied-offenses-once-more-into-the-breach/comment-page-1/#comment-69087</link>
		<dc:creator>Bracton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 14:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briefcase8.com/?p=2588#comment-69087</guid>
		<description>&quot;There have been several instances in the past decade where the court has embarked on a new area of jurisprudence with little appreciation for the consequences that would ensue.&quot; ---  So much for the reasoned development of the common law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There have been several instances in the past decade where the court has embarked on a new area of jurisprudence with little appreciation for the consequences that would ensue.&#8221; &#8212;  So much for the reasoned development of the common law.</p>
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